Heidi Moneymaker Gets Her Kicks (And Punches) Being Scarlett Johansson's Black Widow Stunt Double - Exclusive Interview

This article contains spoilers for Avengers: Endgame

As one of the most prolific stunt performers in the movie and TV business, Heidi Moneymaker has been involved in several blockbuster franchises over the past two decades. In fact, her stunt resume for the first dozen years alone included several smash films, from "Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle," "Mr. & Mrs. Smith," and War of the Worlds" to "Mission: Impossible III," "Fast & Furious" and the big-screen reboot of "Star Trek."

But Moneymaker's world changed dramatically in 2010 with the introduction of Scarlett Johansson as Natasha Romanoff aka Black Widow, to the Marvel Cinematic Universe in "Iron Man 2." Not only did the film signal the beginning of the widely regarded stunt performer's work in the MCU, it also kicked off Moneymaker's longtime pairing with Johansson that continued through "Avengers," "Avengers: Age of Ultron," "Captain America: Civil War," "Avengers: Infinity War" and "Avengers: Endgame."

Now, two years after MCU fans were shattered by Natasha's sacrifice in "Endgame," Moneymaker has reteamed with Johansson to do stunts in "Black Widow." Set between the events of "Captain America: Civil War" and "Avengers: Infinity War," "Black Widow" finds Natasha confronting her past as a Russian spy and the cruel Red Room training facility that helped shape her. By revisiting her past, Natasha encounters her former colleagues-slash-ad-hoc family members, Yelena Belova (Florence Pugh), Melina Vostokoff (Rachel Weisz) and Alexei Shostakov (David Harbour) aka the Red Guardian.

As if the excitement over "Black Widow" isn't enough, Moneymaker's profile rose even higher with another near-simultaneous project that chronicles her career and work in the MCU. Narrated by Johansson, "E60 Presents Moneymaker: Behind Black Widow," was released July 5 and is streaming now on ESPN+. In an exclusive interview with Looper, Moneymaker recalls the rapport she developed with Johansson over the years, discusses her work with her sister and fellow stunt performer, Renae Moneymaker, and reveals details about her future work not only in the MCU, but also on James Cameron's "Avatar 2."

So, "Black Widow" marks, what, the sixth or seventh time you've been the stunt double for the character?

At least.

That's pretty rare, isn't it?

Well, I don't know. People get attached to their stunt doubles, attached to their actresses. And like I said, there's also more than one double on a show. Normally, you have one main double, maybe a second unit double, or two doubles together that are sharing the load and stuff. So, if you've doubled a character, especially if it's very specific like this, you generally will come back and double that character again. Because also we kind of created the style together and stuff as well. So, it was very, like you said, it's kind of like a homecoming or reunion when we get back together, because it's like, "Okay, we've already done this, now how can we expand that and make it bigger and better?"

And for this last Black Widow appearance, actually, I had a head injury when they first started filming principal photography for "Black Widow." And so, I couldn't go out for the first part of principal photography. So, I only came in the end, on additional photography ... We were doing reshoots for "Endgame," and I actually sustained a pretty bad head injury on the dive off the cliff after Hawkeye. So, it was a very weird symbolism of like she had died there, and I had this really bad head injury. And then I couldn't go on to do the first part of "Black Widow," and C.C. Ice, Micki Facchinello, and Michela McAllister — all these amazing girls — went out and started the whole film and did this amazing work, which I'm really excited to see their portion of. But it was very amazing and touching when I came back, and Scarlett and I got to work on the end of the film, and we had a very emotional kind of goodbye at the end of that.

So the scene where Black Widow sacrifices herself in "Endgame" is where the injury happened?

Yeah.

Wow.

It's just one of those things. You're like, things happen and you're knocking heads with somebody else pretty hard on the fly. So, yeah, it was kind of a strange, I guess, coincidence.

So, you bumped heads with the performer doing the stunts for Jeremy Renner?

Yeah. So, the other double and I, we just got a little off center or something when we jumped. I'm not exactly sure what the issue was, but this is why we're here. This is why you have a stunt double, because this stuff is dangerous. And even when it's very straightforward, like this was fairly straightforward, sometimes things go wrong, and things happen. And just so happened at this time, this went wrong and yeah, we hit heads pretty hard.

What sets Cate Shortland apart from the other directors?

You know what? I remember first looking her up on IMDb before I started, and I ended up seeing that she did this film called "Lore." And so, I watched the film, and it was just so beautiful. I feel like she just has an eye for beauty, which is really nice, because we're talking about a film that's very female driven and it's about very hardened females — Russian hardened females — that are assassins. So, when [you] have that character and you bring on somebody who sees the beauty in everything, even when it's what we would say ugly, I feel like that's her strength there. She's able to bring forth that beauty, even in ugliness.

Now, you have been known a time or two to show up in supporting roles as yourself. Did you get that opportunity in "Black Widow"? Because "Captain America: Winter Soldier," I believe you were in that one.

Yeah. I ended up playing a super soldier in "Captain America: Winter Soldier." And then on "Endgame," I played — seeing as we had already died on "Endgame" — sorry, spoiler alert! In that big scene at the end, where everyone's come together to help save the world, I ended up getting to play one of the wizards opening a portal. So, I do get opportunities like that, but not on "Black Widow."

I'm happy you've had more opportunities with the MCU. I caught a post of yours on Instagram, where you said you worked on "Hawkeye."

I was the stunt coordinator on "Hawkeye," an upcoming streaming show for Disney+.

I know this is very touchy and Marvel doesn't want any details to get out. So, you're the stunt coordinator, but do you do any stunts for any characters?

No, I was just the boss on this one. I did a couple of pre-vises [pre-visualizations] before we had our full team, and when we didn't have all of our doubles and stuff. So, I did a couple of pre-vises with my sis. And my sister was on the show as well, and some of the guys. But I didn't actually do any on-camera. Too busy. It was a busy, busy show.

Did you work directly with Jeremy Renner and Hailee Steinfeld?

Yeah, I worked with them both. Jeremy and I have worked together since the first "Avengers," so pretty much about a decade. So, we have a lot of experience together, which is great, because we know each other. I kind of know how he vibes. He knows that I've been around long enough to trust in what I'm doing. So, we had a great relationship. And then Hailee's just [a] wonderful creature. She's just ... I shouldn't call her creature! She's an amazing woman — just really talented, very hardworking, very dedicated. I had a really good time with both of them.

Naturally, as the stories progress in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, it seems like the action is amped up just a bit more, maybe a lot more every time. Obviously, you got to push the limits. You got to take things to places they haven't been before. Do you find that amped up action frightening, exciting, or maybe a bit of both?

I don't find it frightening. I think that we're always striving to make things bigger and better. And when you've seen a film and you've seen the way it's been shot, the next time you come in, you want to see something different. And usually, you want to see something a little bigger and bolder with action. So, it doesn't frighten me at all, especially considering they really do a lot to protect us these days. Visual effects has come in and helped out in so many ways. For example, there's been a lot of head injuries. I've had a couple. There's been a lot of things like that. It's easy to have concussions and whatnot. You get yanked through an entire building and you land on the cement, and you whack your head and then you have a concussion.

So, they've been really good about letting us bring these one-and-a-half-inch, really thick, high density foam pads, and paint them like the bottom of the set. So, if we're doing a big wreck or something, often they'll let us put these down, and then they'll later paint out the edges for us and that kind of thing. So yes, we're doing bigger and better action, but they're also helping us make it safer, too, which I do appreciate. Because no matter how safe you make something, as a stunt person you're banged up all the time. All the time. You really are. And so, for them to put a little piece of foam down or to watch out for you in some little way so that you don't end up with a compound fracture, we're all really grateful for that.

So would you say that — and I don't think this is giving anything away, really — but there are scenes where Black Widow is hanging from a helicopter at some point. So, you do all that sort of stuff, too? Or did you do any of that in this space?

I did not in this film. I have and I do that type of thing. And a lot of times we'll do — and this goes back to talking — I can't speak of this film because I'm not exactly sure how they filmed that scene. But a lot of times they'll shoot a wider shot somewhere, actually with a helicopter, stunt person hanging. And then they do a little more stage work where you can put your actor and make them look like they're really there. And that's helpful because then there's a little bit less danger, you don't have as many days in a helicopter. Because I have done some of that work and helicopters are something that do frighten me, because they crash often!

Yes, yes.

And when you're tied onto one and it's doing crazy stuff around it definitely can be disconcerting!

As I just mentioned, it's unfortunate that the pain you endure entertains us. Plus, I just don't think that stunt performers get enough credit for the fact that you are acting, too. I mean, what you do needs to be in sync with the person that you see on screen. Do you look at it that way, that you are just as much an actor as you are a stunt performer?

I would say I absolutely am an actor. And I came into the business as a stunt performer. And as you evolve, you have to learn how to perform I would say. And I say this a lot in interviews, the industry changed at some point where it became less about like, "Okay, just plug the stunt double in and they get hit by a car and they roll over here," and it became, "Hey, put the stunt double and we'll do a wide [shot] or let's get a master of this fight." And then [it became], "We don't have a lot of time to or money to train the actor. So, we'll train them a little bit. We'll bring them in for little specific pieces. And the rest is you."

And sometimes, like I said, you get stuck on different units and you are, you're doing lines with the other characters. They're over your shoulder onto Captain America or whatever, and you're doing lines and performing actions. So, yeah, you do become an actor as well. I'm comfortable acting now. I feel I've had enough experience and time in front of the camera where I'm comfortable with it, but I wasn't when I first got on the business.

Sure. Well, let's just get the Oscars on board with this already. I'm glad that Screen Actors Guild has their stunt ensemble award, but come on, stunt performers are such an important part of the industry and let's give you the damn credit!

I appreciate that. Thank you. I mean, it is really interesting because I never really thought about it so much until it became a thing of why aren't stunts in the Oscars? And I think now action films are becoming these beautiful depictions of cinema. They're not just an action film. So, they're being nominated for Academy Awards for costume department [and] sound. They're actually really amazing films. And I think a lot of us are filmmakers, we're not just action people. So, we want to make a film that's a piece of art as well as a big, exciting adventure. And so in that sense, I do feel like at some point we will be granted with a little spot in the Oscars.

Recently, my sister was given a book on producing and it was "The Hopeful Guide to Becoming a Producer." When you go in there and there's all these chapters and each part of the business had a chapter of your background, your actors, catering, everything had a chapter. No stunts, though. That is so weird!

Many stunt performers have gone on to direct — Sam Hargrave, Chad Stahelski, and David Leitch. Obviously, you were mentioning directing too. I mean, talk about people and yourself, too, having such a handle on the physicality of what you do on a set. It must seem like a natural progression to want to direct, I would imagine.

Well, I'll say that I performed for so long for two reasons. One, I still could. I still can. I can still do a lot of things that a lot of other people cannot do yet. I'm still in good physical shape and I was handling it very well. So, I performed much longer than I thought I would and longer than ... not that I'm done performing, but my main source of film was performing. And I started coordinating here and there and slowly kind of moving toward ... forward in the business because I realized that I really do enjoy— I enjoy directing. I enjoy telling a story. I'm a writer. I like being involved in creating art. And so as much as I'm so grateful to stunt coordinate and I'm loving it and I'm doing, I'll be involved as much as possible on every single show I do, my ultimate goal is to go tell the story rather than to coordinate just the action. I obviously will start with second unit action directing because that's the natural progression, but ultimately, I would like to direct my own film.

Would it always be action? Could you see yourself exploring different genres?

Actually, I wrote a script about 10 years ago that was loosely based off of my family. Because I mean ... my family is basically like my "Big Fat Greek Wedding" except for we're Catholic. And I sat down and wrote this thing. And then it was almost done, and I remember thinking, "What am I doing? Why am I going to finish this? I'm never going to make it. If I ever get the chance to make a movie, it's not going to be something that doesn't have any action in it whatsoever." And so recently, I was going through an old computer, and I found it and I'm like, "I want to read this." And so, I read it and I was laughing. I thought, "You know what? This has legs. I'm going to make this someday." So, it's funny you asked that because I was like, "I don't care if it's not action, I'm going to make this movie." It's going to be funny. And also, I want to do action comedy. I love laughing and I love making people laugh. So, for me, if I could do a serious action film. That was an action-comedy film, that's my dream. That's the goal.

Now there's nothing listed on IMDb yet, but are you involved in "John Wick," in the fourth film? Because obviously you had worked with Halle Berry on "John Wick 3." Halle hasn't been announced in the fourth one, but I would imagine she's going to come back. So, do you have any involvement with the franchise for the fourth film?

No, I am not currently involved with "John Wick 4," but you never know.

Are there any other films that aren't listed on IMDb or other places that you can talk about?

I have a pretty big project coming up, but I have not asked if it's okay if I speak about it.